That God is performing miracles through the man in the Synagogue, Snr Prophet Temitope Balogun Joshua is not in doubt. The mammoth presence of healing seekers who besiege his Church from all corners of the globe is a sparking attestation to his divine power.
The Ikotun-Egbe site of the Church has become a pilgrimage of sorts, especially to the White people who come from Britain, USA, Canada, Austria, Switzerland, Greece and South Africa.
In this one-on-one interview with the 37-year-old prophet, he talked on his beginning, his tribulations, his persecutions and his triumph.
Excerpts:
It’s obvious that God is doing wonders through you. All roads lead to Synagogue Church of All Nations, yet some people criticize you that it’s not real. Why do you think people feel like that?
When we look at the book of Matthew 12 verse 24, you will read that people called Jesus King of Possible. The people that called him that were his people. They were not stranger. And Jesus was the head of the house. Now, if the head of the house is called King of Possible, what do you expect people to call a member of the house. I’m not a member of the house. I can be called any name. servant can never be greater than master. So, I’m T.B. Joshua, and I’m a servant.
The Bible says, if you are called all sorts of name, inspite of the good you are doing, you should remember at all times Jesus’ rejection. He was rejected. And when you look at the Bible, you will see that there’s no single prophet that was actually welcome, that people embrace, that people cherish. My own should not be an exception.
May be one of the reasons is that you are different from most “known” men of God. Unlike other people that I’ve written articles to criticize, I believe that a lot of men of God are too flamboyant, they are too ostentatious in their way of life. Unlike those ones, you are down to earth and modest. You try to keep a low profile. Could your humble and simple disposition be part of the problems?
Well, as a man of God, if I say anything against any man of God, it will affect my anointment. If I condemn or even abuse a person, it will affect my anointment because afterwards, I have to go inside the room and ask for forgiveness. The situation where I will have to be asking for forgiveness all the time is not good. My hands are tied really (laughs)
Let’s look at your antecedents. Where did you start from? How did the phenomenon called Pastor Joshua start?
My calling is just like any other true man of God. If you flip through the Bible, there is no page where Jesus reflected His background or told people how he was this or how he was able to do this and that. This is because, that could be seen as self-righteousness. I think we should behave like the father. I started just like any other true man of God.
It’s been quite a journey from your humble beginning to your present status. What vision do you have of Synagogue Church of All Nations?
God’s vision is my vision. We are all children of God. We know Jesus Christ’s mission. The Bible says immediately we become a partaker of the divine holiness. His vision becomes our vision. So, God’s vision is my vision.
Let me try to rephrase the question. Even our Lord Jesus Christ was in a manger. He had a very humble beginnings, and he took time for people to identify the power in Him. When was the turning point between the man Joshua and now the prophet of God?
That is the problem now. The war I’m having over T.B. Joshua. Let me hit the nail on the head, let me tell you frankly, the truth. I think I was born with all what I have been doing. If I continue to tell you about myself, it would amount to self-rigtheousness. Or boasting. I don’t to boast, I should boast over what God is doing in my life not what I’m doing for God. I think I have never for one day mix, right from my youth. I eve had to stop my secondary school because of the life out there. I was in Form One, a sister wanted to rape me. At that time, they called me an impotent, that was their belief, because I was not mixing with others. The sister deceived me and attempted to rape me. I said this is too much. I don’t play any game, I don’t travel. I’ve never been to America or Europe. Just because I found out that the way people are travelling out are wrong treated, very irritating. I believe people need to be treated with more dignity. Everybody is now a suspected drug baron or trafficker, these are the things that put me off from travelling. The way the power of God started manifesting in me, I cannot explain. Let me give you an instance. When I was in Primary School, primary two to be precise, a mad man came to our school. He carried on him, knife, cutlass and some other dangerous weapons. The teachers ran away, abandoned us. But I walked over to the mad man and collected the dangerous weapon. I just discovered that demons and other evils surrender when they see me. I was manifesting these divine traits right from youth. When there’s match between our school and another. I will accurately predict the scores. I will predict the weather too. Telling people if it will rain or not. Even academically, I was always at the top of the class. Actually, my lifestyle is not an imitation of any earthly master. I don’t look at any other person to build my Church, nobody can say this is the Church I emerged from. But when I was very small. I followed my parents to Anglican Church. When I grew up, I realized I can live a better life than the way my parent lived. Consequently, I decided to stop going to the church with them or any other church for that matter. I went into teaching, teaching children about God, educating them about the words of the holy spirit.
Which schools did you attend then?
After my primary school, I attended almost 15 secondary schools.
Which primary school did you attend?
I attended St. Stephens Primary School at Iyede-Agbaluko in Ondo State.
Why did you attend so many secondary schools?
Because my parents were handicapped financially.
How many kids did they have?
They have up to seven. They sent many of them to school, and expected that those that have been sent to school will in turn send me, but they never did.
At what point did you start doing the work of God. At what point did you receive the call?
That happened right from when I can distinguish between what is right and what is wrong. That was around the age of ten. But the world got to know me about eight years ago.
So, Synagogue started eight years ago?
Yes, eight years ago.
Before then you were just an itinerant preacher?
Yes, I was going about preaching the Words of God without attending any theological school or institution.
So, just eight years ago you started this Church. Where did you start from?
At Egbe here.
Why the choice of the place. Were you living around this area or God directed you to a particular area?
Then, I was living around here, before the Church. You know our body is the church, not this physical structure. So, I will say was born with the Church.
How was it like at the beginning?
At the beginning, even up till now, I used to tell people that if you come to Synagogue and you receive the blessings of God, that does not mean you should abandon you church. You don’t have to remain here at Synagogue after receiving your healing. But those who does not have a Church, they were attending, we advise them to look for one in their neighbourhood. So, people were coming and going. However, most of them realised that when they come and go, they find it difficult to maintain the blessing they receive here, so they become members of Synagogue.
At what point within the eight years did you have the kind of multitude you now have here?
Good, I think all this started four years ago.
What was the miracle that spread the word around?
I think the people who experienced miracles in their lives are in the best position to talk on that.
There are different kinds of anointing. It seems your own gift is healing?
Let me tell you about the Word healing. The Bible says our conscience is the contact point of the Holy Ghost. If that is the case, it means no one can receive healing without the word of God. He send forth His Word and it was obeyed. He said, let there be light, and there was light. So when you say healing is a gift, it’s the Word of God that made that possible.
A lot of people come here for all kinds of healing and they got healed. I want to cite the example of Kano. Did he come here on his own volition or was he advised to come by a member of the Church?
The issue of Kanu, I don’t want to emphasise on that. I’m trying to save soul and I am not boasting that on personality. Look, a person of Kanu international statue, do you think it’s possible to deceive him into coming to this place? The person like that will come on his own.
We know that given what you are doing, a lot of top celebrities come here. Are there occasions when you have to leave this place to attend someone, or anybody that wants salvation must come to the Church?
When you read your Bible from genesis to Revelation, there is no where Jesus went about looking for people to heal. It was the people that came looking for him. I want to say something today which I know will be of interest to you. When I was very small, I use to say, we are all human beings, and the Bible says, in our heart we are made to be like Jesus. Since we are made in our hearts like Jesus, why is it that when you have a man of God, who is a black man, the followers will be back. If the man of God is white, the followers will be black. If the man of God is white, the followers will be white. I now asked myself that if I should lead my Church to either Europe or America, it means I will only attract black people. God, I think, should be able to use us in such a way that we have something which they (the white) don’t have and which they must seek from us. I considered how it would be possible for them (the white) to follow a black man, to listen to the black. This is the wonderful things God is now doing at the Synagogue. We have the whites from all over the world coming here to receive the miracles of God from a Nigerian, a black man.
There is a difference between the ma, and the pastor, the man is gentle-looking, but the Pastor, when he is performing miracles, exudes so much energy, and he is fierce-looking. What’s the difference between the man, Joshua and the Pastor?
I will take you back to the book of Romans 1 verse 3, Jesus has two natures in one person. The divine nature and human nature. As for human nature, he (Jesus) was a descendant of David. But as for his divine holiness, he was being given the power to raise the dead. This applied too to everyone of us. We have two natures. Our human nature and the divine nature. Once you are blessed with the Spirit of the Christ, you have no fear of the evil. That’s why I am not bothered about what people say about me. The criticism against me is like a tonic to the grace in my life. I even enjoy it. The more people say anything bad about me, the more the grace of God in my life.
People usually worship men of God. There’s one restaurant I used to go too eat, your photograph 1s there. How do you fed when you see people worship you like that?
Anybody who worships Pastor T. B. Joshua is being blasphemous. It is a sin. There is no reason for that. That’s why I don’t wear any ornament like ring, neck-chain, etc. Because, if people see that I’m putting on something like that, they may start reading meaning to it. They may say it’s my source of power.
So, I don’t see any reason why people should look at a servant as a master. It is a sin against God for anybody to do that.
A lot of men of God use certain things to heal. Some use handkerchiefs while some use water. What do you use when you heal, is it only by words of mouth?
The words of mouth. The words of mouth. When you look into the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. You will… even Peter, hear what he says: Silver, Gold I have not, but in the name of Jesus Christ. Because all what you need is in the name, Jesus.
The baptism of the Holy Ghost is of Jesus Christ. When you are baptised in the Holy Ghost, you just have to pronounce the word of the Holy Ghost. Those who are not baptized in the Holy Ghost, but in water, they can work in the element of water, in the element of iron, in the element of candle, in the element of Jesus Cross, these are baptism of water. The Bible says spirit is spirit that is of Jesus Christ. But in John, the baptist, you have body in the water.
There was a time were involved in a controversy with a popular T.V Presenter, Kola Olawuyi. He actually challenged you. Did you ignore him or he was just too powerful for you to overpower?
Remember what you called the man, Iririaiye. I’m here for Iririorun (general laughter) I think I have had a greater persecution than that of Olawuyi.
Like which one, for example?
People have called me a drug baron. They claimed I was a threat to government. That was during Abacha. The NDLEA came here, ransacked the whole place, closed the church and ordered members to stay away from here. I was in their custody for 13 days. My name was sent to all embassies as a drug baron. They did that to spoil my name. so, when you talk of Olawuyi, his own was a child’s play. Jesus came to restore the relationship and Fellowship between God and man. If I have done nothing hard to any human being, then God will not allow anything hard to happen to me. By their words you shall know them. The Bible says the greater the persecution, the more we are, our strong becomes stronger.
Let’s come to the Church now, people come from all over the world, to see you. When they come, where do they stay, who takes care of them, what do they give back to the Church?
At the beginning of the foreigners coming to this place, they were staying in hotels like Sheraton, etc. but this was bringing the Church a bad name, as the foreigners became the target of 419 people who stormed the hotel to dupe them. And these 419 people were using the name of our Church to dupe them. My conscience will worry me. I deed them free, too I’m not interested in their money, because the higher hands leading me, is leading me towards something higher. If I could do more than that for Nigerians and they don’t appreciate it, let me do it for foreigners.
After receiving the healing, do you show appreciation by donating to the Church ?
I don’t allow them to show the gratitude they showed financially. They show the gratitude by spreading the word of what God is using the Synagogue to do. When you see it on CNN that Synagogue is being mentioned, it is these people who are helping to spread the word around. That is their own way of paying back.
Let’s come to personal thing now. You have a wife and three kids. How did you meet your wife?
My wife understands the nature of my job. She too wants to be like Pastor T.B. Joshua, if possible.
Is she anointed?
She is waiting in faith. I don’t want her to embark on a dangerous mission. Because if I now hold her at the altar and proclaim her as an evangelist, I am sending her on a dangerous mission. Dangerous mission in the sense that in event of an attack, by anointing, you can send it back. And I don’t have the power to give to her.
So, how did you meet her?
I was already a man of God when I met her. You know, when you marry with Jesus, he will choose for you.
Was she a member of the congregation?
No, she wasn’t.
Where then did you meet her?
Jesus chose her for me. She came to me for salvation of her soul.
And God told you this is the woman?
The spirit bears witness. The Bible says the spirit of God join into our spirit to declare that we are children of God.
Both of you have three children?
Yes.
Does your name affect your kids in school. Do their friends and even teachers ask them to get you to do certain things for them?
Any time they are doing parties like birthday, I usually pray for them.
Have you ever visited them in school?
No.
Does their teachers come to the Church?
Well, the best way we can help our friends and brothers is to pray.
Do they school in the neighbourhood?
Yes they do.
You seems to be very modest in your approach to life. Is it by choice that you decided to be modest or you are trying to prove a point by your way of life?
To be blessed abundantly, you must be a good giver. A good giver in the sense that whatever God gives to you, you should believe he can give more than that tomorrow.
If somebody comes now, and give you a Mercedez Benz, will you take it?
You have now hit the point. Io have never opened up now on this to anyone before, but I will tell you. I have received up to 50 cars. But I accepted only two out of all. Because the way people give out gifts us not Christ-like. For example, if you want to give me something. Like a car or whatsoever, I don’t have to know you. If you come here, just park the car with the documents inside at the front of the Church without attracting anybody. And go your way. By the time the car will be there for about five days, it would attract the curiosity of the security men and upon closer examination, they will see the letter attached to it that it was a gift for the Church. That is the kind of gift God wants us to receive from people. Not the type you will send through your driver and say go and give Pastor T. B. Joshua. It will disturb me. It’s like you are giving a private jet now. Any time you come, my children will know you are the one who gave me. When they hear your name, people that are waiting to see me since morning, they would disregard them and make sure I see you before anyone else.
If you are the proud type, immediately you come, you will be impatiently demanding to see me. That’s not a Spirit of God. Also, if you are in the service, I will not feel free to talk especially when what I am preaching against affects you.
Again, I will see you as being superior than the others. That’s why I picked only two out of the 50 cars offered to me.
What kind of cars are the two?
A Mercedes Benz and Datsun Laurel. The ordinary ones common people use. It is one of the reasons I don’t ask people to donate money in the Church as it is the common practice. If you ask 1,000 members to raise millions for instance, how would the poorer members of the congregation feel? Some may stop coming to Church because of that. I don’t want to hurt people. I try my best to make people realise that my outward appearance should not be what people should look at, but what comes out of me. That is, what God is using me to do.
I think this is one of the reasons the world really hates me. I do things naturally, don’t allow the Western world to influence me.
That’s why if you want to heal somebody, you make sure it’s done in the public glare?
Yes, apart from this, people will learn and will give glory to God. Many people will be converted, many will have fear of God. Many will believe that with God, all is possible.
That modesty could be seen in the structure of the Church, too. What’s stops you from creating a more befitting place, since it is a house of God?
When you look at the seats, you will see that we all seat in the same way. Whether you are a minister, you are a minister outside.
But you can change the seats. The Church can afford it or can it not?
The way and manner God say we should approach people, since we don’t want to take it upon ourselves, it is the spirit that will touch people to bring something. It’s like when you ask people to pay their tithe, you don’t ask them how much they earn in a month. If a member doesn’t pay his tithe, that does not mean you have to challenge him.
You have not answered my question. Is it deliberate the way the church is or the Church cannot afford to change some of their things begging for a change here?
It’s not deliberate. We take care of the people of the church. Because our body is church, not physical structure.
So, you are more interested in taking care of the members of the Church than the physical structure?
Yes, people that you are seeing being healed of cancer, AIDS, etc I give them money back. Some of them before they come here would have spent all their money on medication.
Because of the bad impression they had about this Church. Many do not come until they are at the point of death. Some of those infected with HIV have no jobs. Immediately they become known as HIV a career, they would be sacked by their companies. Their landlords will eject them, even their families will deny them. So, I have to start getting them money to rent house, give them money to feed and get a job for them. This is what we are spending money on. The beautiful structure of the church, I think God will do that when it’s time.
The same thing with the fact that we have no branches. We want a situation that in any branch of Synagogue , what is happening here should reflect there.
Do you prophesy?
How can somebody be an overseer, if anybody is an overseer, builds Church like this without all the qualities of apostles, then the people won’t take him serious.
Recently, we’ve been having a lot of problems in this country?
I said it in Newswatch that there will be crisis, this June. And I saw the crisi since January. I told them all about these problems.
If you look ahead, what do you see for the country, will this democracy survive with all the politicians are doing, or things will get better eventually?
It’s like we have changed to a very different direction now. If I now start telling you about what will happen, then it is a different direction we are going.
A lot of celebrities now come to Synagogue. Do you see this as a vindication that a rejected stone has now become a corner stone?
When you look at the mission since Christ mission is our mission, the celebrity is not the issue, but how many people were saved. When we look at the mission of Church, the mission of Church and the glorious message of the gospel, what’s the glorious message of the gospel? Glorious message of the gospel is that God Almighty has provided salvation to everyone who accepts his son. So, how many people were saved? Who makes up the Church? So, let’s forget about celebrities. The people who are saved is what we should be concerned about.
What message do you have for those criticizing you?
I want to be very careful so that I will not abuse people outside there. Let me take them back to the book of Acts 5 verse 38. The Bible says, leave this men alone, if their mission is human origin, they won’t be able to stand during trial and trouble. But if their mission is of God, the whole world stand against them, they will not be able to pin them down. If they are now fighting those who God has raised, they are fighting God. My advice is that they should be in spirit, they should be careful of what hear outside. Because what we hear can influence us. We should be careful of what we see, because what we see can influence us. The Bible says we don’t look at what we see, but we look at what we cannot see. We should be careful of what we read, look at what we are saying now, if you don’t have the fear of God and at the end of the day, you now go out and publish what I did not say, this may influence the readers. So, we should be careful of what we read, because what we read can lead into our future action. These are what I am advising.
Culled from: GLOBAL EXCELLENCE
